Friday, July 03, 2009

Internal Hiring Support Center

I just got the following e-mail from my ATR friend.

Internal Hiring Support Center called me today, to ask if I would sign up for an interview technique class that they offer or a job fair. And had I been using the open to hire for jobs?

Yes, I told them I had been applying to the open to hire, but that in 2 years of applying I had not gotten one interview. I informed them that I have an AP and Principal license and have gotten plenty of interviews for AP . It seems strange that I can get AP interviews but can not get one interview for a teaching job in my district. Perhaps they can get me teaching interviews? I also informed them since I worked last year for the University of Santa Cruz and the DOE with Fellows, on a DOE leave, it seems strange that the only organization I can't seem to get a teaching interview with is the DOE. Also, I informed them that I do not need interview technique skills, because I was a Mentor for three years and can teach interview skills.

They then asked if I would come to a Job Fair? Why? Why should I leave my district where there are jobs, which I am not getting interviewed for? This is totally ridiculous. ATR mentors should be placed in their home schools as jobs become available. We were moved from those schools to work as mentors for the UFT and the DOE, who both had people on the interviewing committees to choose the mentors. If we were good enough, " The brightest and the best" to quote Mr. Klein, we should be returned to our home schools.

I think the real reason I am not getting interviewed is because of age and salary. This is really terrible as I have a lot of training and background to offer a school. But to have the DOE call and suggest I take an interviewing class is really insulting.

My friend is depressed. She has done everything right but no jobs are materializing. A former principal told her she costs too much money and should look for a job somewhere else. She wishes she had a tape rolling during the conversation. The UFT says she should be happy she is getting a paycheck, and while she is happy to get paid, that is not enough. She is a teacher who wants to teach. There are students out there who deserve a teacher like her.

We are guessing there might have been motivations besides the obvious with this phone call? Have any other ATRs been approached in the same manner?


Mr. Talk said...

I looked up my own subject area in both my old and current districts. There are 7 jobs available. Seems like these should already be filled with ATRs. It seems to be a simple case of stonewalling and the UFT should raise hell about it. Instead, Randi stands with the mayor and smiles as he makes a power grab for control of the new BOE.

Anonymous said...

I hate to tell you but your friend should have gone to the job fair. Why not? The truth about the open hire system is that is extreme difficult to use, both for teachers and principals. There are now roughly 5000 teachers in the teacher ATR pool after budget cuts and more school closures (like mine). And the majority carry U ratings (for all that might these ratings are sometimes misleading they matter). This list is made available to principals and I have gotten interview offers from this route. My job offers have come through personal contacts, especially my current principal anxious to free the budget money in Galaxy (dump to Central is not guaranteed this year). If your friend has been a mentor then she should know that it is WHO you know and not what you know that matters. I know tenure max teachers in tier 1 that have gotten new jobs through contacts not open hire. Your friend's former principal was specifically telling your friend she is overpriced. If your friend wants a job, she has to 1) get over the depression, perhaps with professional help, 2) use every available contact to find out about jobs, 3) be willing to travel to job fairs, and 4) identify her weaknesses that are preventing her from being hired that she CAN control.

Staten Island ATR said...

A principal says she can't get a straignt answer from anyone about what my salary will be with the "ATR discount". They keep fighting her attempt to hire me, also. Even when someone wants to hire an older ATR the DOE is making it impossible. I wrote the UFT and no response so far.

Anonymous said...

The UFT Chapter Leaders generally know who's retiring, who's moving away, who's leaving for greener pastures, who's being kicked out to a rubber room, etc.

I would think that the first contacts should be made to Chapter Leaders, even prior to contacting the principals.

The next step would be to ask the Chapter Leaders for an honest answer to the following question:

Is this a relatively "grievance free" school?

Just my two cents!

Frustrated ATR said...

Anon: Read the union contract regarding ATRs (this was in the UFT paper this week) which says that the DOE is to give interviews to ATRs in their home districts if there are openings. By going to the fairs we are giving the DOE what they want. Good teachers moved from their good districts to poor/failing schools. The DOE should be forced to hold to the contract. I should not be asked to attend job fairs in Brooklyn or the Bronx which is not my home district. This is against the contract regarding ATR placement. The DOE should hold up their part of the contract. I should not be moved from a good district for them.

By the way, Anon, you sound just like a principal. I can't believe a teacher would write and say the things you do.

Anonymous said...

perhaps Some of us should read the union contract regarding ATRs ( this was in the UFT paper this week and in the contract). It says the DOE is to give interviews to ATRs in their home districts if there are openings. By going to the fairs we are giving the DOE what they want. Good teachers moved from their good districts to poor/failing schools. The DOE should be forced to hold to the contract. I should not be asked to attend job fairs in districts which are not my home district , when my home district has openings.This is against the contract regarding ATR placement. The DOE should be made to hold up their part of the contract. I should not have to leave a good district for them.

mathman42 said...

UFT should be focused on ATRs and 6 month resolvement of rubber room residents. They sleep with the enemy. Forget the job fairs, they are only slightly less depressing than having your car towed.(I have experienced both ).

Although open market does not list everything, if you check it every other day you'll find a lot. Unfortunately most openings are not at the very best schools so you have to research those situations. Open market isn't hard to use, just hard to get a job through it. Unless you can demonstrate that you are worth the extra dollars ( just like in the real world ), why should the principal hire you if they have a less expensive alternative ?
So if they give the principal a " credit " you have a better shot.
I was also an ATR for a year but knew I would go back to my home school so avoided other permanent situations; definitely treated as a 2nd class citizen.

We have to push the union real hard.

Anonymous said...

I know this is a sensitive issue, and I'm sorry if I sound like a principal. The truth is that you do need to know the NEW contract, that has already given away most of the protections and benefits associated with earlier years. The contract guarantees INTERVIEWS for available jobs, not job offers themselves. Why do you have to move? Because the argument for TERMINATION of ALL ATRS is that they are lazy and incompetent. Something I strongly believe is an untrue and unfair characterization.

By refusing to go to job fairs and trainings sessions, you are giving them exactly what they want. They will used the data as documented evidence that the ATRs are unwilling to accept available teaching jobs and are therefore choosing to be terminated. This attitude, whether right or wrong from an individual teacher's standpoint, will be villified by the powers that be. It is exactly the fuel that they are looking for. Sorry, but this is the truth. The new hires are willing to staff any school, even the struggling ones. If no current teacher will take those jobs, then new teachers will have to be hired. And salary money will have to be liberated to hire them. (That will be their argument and it is likely to convince the general public.)

Oh, and there is no such thing as an "ATR discount". There is a FSF legacy calculation to offset the salaries of tier 1/2 teachers.

And yes, we have to be sure that the union can retain our few remaining rights. Most importantly, the salaries and benefits need to go back on the central budget so that principals can hire the best teachers, regardless of cost.

Anonymous said...

Oh, one other comment. The majority of ATRs in Manhattan are being forced out fo their home district because of competition. There are not enough new job openings in the new schools that are replacing the closed/phased out ones. The current rules allow 50% new hires ONLY at the new schools for 3 years. Other established schools must hire current DOE employees. Unless you know that the position in your district was filled with someone new from outside your district, then you don't have a grievance. If you find it out, you might be able to bring some sort of action, but don't count on union support. One dues-paying member is just like another to them.

Pissedoffteacher said...

The UFT does not agree and so far it looks like administration doesn't agree either.

Anonymous said...

Give it a rest! It's not about internal vs. external candidates. It's about this untenable notion that appointed teachers should not be forced to go where the work is. Try running that line of dog poop on displaced workers in other industries. Oh right, they don't have tenure- they get to experience unemployment. But not our illustrious teachers in excess in NYCDOE schools. They get to sit back and moan and whine about having to go outside their home districts to teach children. Not everyone. There are so many teachers in excess who will go where the work is and who may not be well received because they don't have any financial incentives attached to them. To those teachers I say something must be done. If Hiring Support can assist them, then Hiring Support should do everything possible to assist them because these people truly want to teach. To the rest of you who think you are entitled to extraordinary treatment in the midst of a recession that is ravaging most people's lives I pray that the next contract that is negotiated gives you a very short specified time line to find a job, and in the event that you don't- join the damn bread line. Maybe then you will appreciate that entitlement is just another word for narcissism.

Pissedoffteacher said...

You are the one that should give it a rest. I wonder what the motivation behind your posts are? I have suspicions, but I will keep them to myself.

Anonymous said...

I apologize for posting the original anonymous comments that created such nasty later posts. However, I was motivated by the desire to make you realize that you are clinging to a system that no longer exists and that lacks internal UFT support. My information comes from having diplomas from intimidating schools and hiring a lawyer who has bested Klein in the past. And being able to read between the lines during negotiations/talks. The next contract will have restrictions on the time to get rehired, will remove the idea of home school or district (which already does not exist for high schools from the vantage point of students and parents and therefore the public), and if we are lucky we might get some consessions on outside hiring freezes including new schools and no more excessing/firing during the recession and more rapid resolution of the rubber room situation. Haven't you heard the news that the latest graduates of the police academy are not being hired because of the lack of funds? If your friend does not find a job somewhere with the competition at over 5000 current excess/ATRs, then it will be more difficult in September. Her seniority will guarantee her a job until retirement but not her ideal job. Sorry, but this is true. And the principals union did get much greater concessions from the administration including a memo from Klein that, in making adjustments for the reduced funding, avoid putting any APs into excess. The same memo fails to mention similar protections for teachers and makes sacricifial lambs of the untenured staff. One must wonder why.

Anonymous said...

I have just retired from Packemin HS and I am home for a day off from my camp job which I love. I am reading anonymous # 1 rantings and I could vomit. I shared an office this past year with an ATR guidance counselor who was a great dedicated professional who really cared for the students and and gave them solid professional advice not like a few of the kiddy core staff who can barely wipe their own noses. It is insulting to make these people go for interviews when all Bloomberg and Klein are concerned with is teachers on the cheap. Wait until the next contract and watch what the city offers. I could be wrong but diddely squat is what I am guessing. SHAME ON THE WHOLE ATR SYSTEM AND SHAME ON ANYONE WHO VOTES FOR THE NEXT CONTRACT UNLESS THIS BULL S--T is done away with.

mathman42 said...

Open Market indicates Math jobs at Bronx Science, Lehman HS, and Francis Lewis and at many schools of unknown reputation.